Our Wonderful God

In Three Persons

May the Grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, the love of God and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you all.
II Cor. 13:14

Responses to Objections to the Trinity

There is one God: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, a unity of three co-eternal Persons. God is immortal, all-powerful, all-knowing, above all, and ever present. He is infinite and beyond human comprehension, yet known through His self-revelation. He is forever worthy of worship, adoration, and service by the whole creation. (Fundamental Belief #2)

The following is a letter written to some who challenge the SDA understanding. Their premise is that neither the Bible nor E.G. White's writings uphold the trinity, so why do SDA's adhere to it? Therefore you will also see many quotes from EGW showing that indeed she DID uphold our understanding:

Greetings to all,

Firstly I appreciate the “civil” tone of the discussions. I hope this is not just a “rebuttal” as the word connotes a bunch of goats butting their heads together, which tends to only end in a big headache. If truth is to be found, it should be the investigation of all the evidence. Obviously you folk believe you have the truth, and many of the sentiments you share, I too believe is truth. However, the underlying principle of your understanding I do NOT see as being built on the CORRECT premise. No matter how many texts and sentiments of truth are piled up on a wrong foundation, it just does not build a structure OF truth.

That premise is the supposition that Christ is a “derived” or “pro-created” lesser God and that He is not the eternal ONE--

GC. 524
"If men reject the testimony of the inspired Scriptures concerning the
Deity of Christ, it is vain to argue the point with them. . .None who
hold this error can have a true conception of the character or the
mission of Christ, or of the great plan of God for man's redemption."

I want to comprehend Christ!!! Which means I must accept the testimony of His TRUE DEITY, not a derived deity. (I know you do not fully deny Christ’s deity, but you seem to believe it is only a derived deity--
No, I disagree with that premises for HE IS TRULY AND FULLY GOD in the highest sense.
So please permit me to once again share how I see this in scripture and EGW.

Now the question that is being tossed back and forth in the present discussion is this:

Which belief is actually worshipping more than ONE God.

To me it seems plain that anyone believing that God the FATHER is the ONE AND ONLY true God or DEITY, and that Christ and God the Father are NOT both that ONE DEITY, are worshipping two gods.

The Anti Trinitarian, in turn says:

Again, I must respectfully disagree. Please correct me if I'm misunderstanding. But the Trinitarian belief system advocates that the Father is God and that the Son is God and that the Holy Spirit is God, right? And believers in the trinity worship THEM, right? Then I would have to submit to you that if this is the case, then Trinitarians are the ones that are thus worshipping THREE Deities. I worship the "one true God" who Jesus Christ Himself has said is the Father.

My immediate response would be, “Don’t you then worship Christ? For the Bible plainly and forcefully says there is ONLY ONE GOD AND HIM ALONE ARE WE TO SERVE, {or worship}
Matt. 12.30,32
“And you are to love the Lord (KURIOS) thy God (DEITY) with all your heart,
and with all your soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength:
this is the first commandment.
For there is one God; (DEITY) and there is none other but He:”

1 Corinthians 8:4,5
There is no other God but One. For even if there are so called gods,
whether in heaven or on earth (as there are many gods and many lords) us there is ONE GOD;

These verses plainly say we are to worship ONLY the ONE and that there is no other gods to be worshipped-- no not even in heaven.

But then further down I do see that the “anti-Trinitarian” has tried to answer that question. And I appreciate him taking the time and effort to try and explain this.

He writes:
Hebrews 1:6 And again, when he brings in the first begotten into the world, he said, And let all the angels of God worship him. …..Verse 5 gives us a glimpse of that precious moment before the creation when God brought forth, or birthed, or generated His Son…….
So, yes, Christ is God, by REASON OF HIS RELATIONSHIP TO THE FATHER. And yes, Christ is to be worshipped, for that is the WILL OF THE FATHER! God (the Father) is, as scripture states - "All in All".
John 3:35 - "The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into his hand."
Therefore, worshipping the Son as well as the Father is not worshipping a multiplicity of gods, it is in actual fact the SUPREME act of worship to the ONE TRUE God, who is the Father, to render worship to His only begotten Son - for that is the Father's will. And ultimately, in doing the Father's will, we are WORSHIPPING THE ONE TRUE GOD who is the Father……

John 5:23 - "That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him."
….worshipping the Son is an act of worship to the Father, who, according to Jesus (and rightly so) is the ONE TRUE God. And we are commanded to worship the ONE TRUE God - as per commandment---

So if I understand this correctly you are saying God “pro-created” Christ, and even though Christ is not God, yet because of his “bloodline” he is “a god” by inheritance. Therefore it is the will of God that we worship Christ, yet even though we are to worship Christ, we are not really worshipping Christ, but worshipping the Father who commanded it.

Now, I’m afraid that doesn’t really make sense. For why would we then have the command that we are to WORSHIP ONLY GOD and Him alone?

Matt. 4.9,10
[Satan] said unto [Christ] …fall down and worship me. Then said Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shall you serve.

Is God contradicting Himself-- saying we are to worship ONLY HIM, if this means the Father ALONE is God, that He alone is the ONLY manifestation of the TRUE Godhead, and that even when we hear of “another god in heaven or on earth” (1 Cor. 8:5) we know it is not the true God
and then this same God, who commands us to worship ONLY HIM through all ages, also commands His creatures to worship Christ? A supposedly "lesser, pro-created God."

No, no-- that is not the way it is.

Now the explanation, that worshipping the Son is an act of worship to Father, I agree with fully. And the reason the act of worshipping the Son is an act of worship to the Father is because they are ONE GOD.

John 14:7-10
If you had known me, you should have known my Father also: and from henceforth you know him, and have seen him.
Philip saith unto him, Lord, show us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet have you not known me, Philip? he that has seen me has seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father? Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me?

John 10.30
I and my Father are one.

The truth of the matter is that BOTH BELIEFS presenting their viewpoints in these posts, believe in worshipping the Father and the Son. BUT:

1. One side says Christ was pro-created, --that God the father gave birth and generated a literal son. A Son, who looked like Him, and upon whom He bequeathed some of the honours of godhood.

2. I believe that God as an eternal Being, manifested in three persons; Father, Son and Holy Spirit. All of one substance, co-eternal, co-equal-- one God yet three persons.

“There are three living persons of the heavenly trio; in the name of these
three great powers--the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit--
those who receive Christ by living faith are baptized,” (See Matt. 28:19)

DA 19
"His name shall be called Immanuel, . . . God with us." (Isa. 9:6)
"The light of the knowledge of the glory of God" is seen "in the face of Jesus Christ."
FROM THE DAYS OF ETERNITY the Lord Jesus Christ was one with the Father;
He was "the image of God," the image of His greatness and majesty,
"the outshining of His glory."
It was to manifest this glory that He came to our world.
To this sin-darkened earth He came to reveal the light of God's love,
--to be "God with us." Therefore it was prophesied of Him, "His name shall be called Immanuel."

"The Lord Jesus Christ, the divine Son of God,existed from eternity,
a distinct person, yet one with the Father.
He was the surpassing glory of heaven.
He was the commander of the heavenly intelligences,
and the adoring homage of the angels was received by him as his right."

RH 1904-05026
Christ sits on the right hand of God." Let us not forget our baptismal vow.
In the presence of the three highest powers of heaven,--

the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit,
--we have pledged ourselves to do the will of him who, over the rent sepulchre of Joseph, declared,
"I am the resurrection and the life."

AA p. 39
"As soon as this ceremony (Christ's inauguration) was completed, the
Holy Spirit descended upon the disciples in rich currents, and CHRIST

With solemn dignity Jesus answered, "Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I Am."
Silence fell upon the vast assembly. The name of God,
given to Moses to express the idea of the eternal presence,
had been claimed as His own by this Galilean Rabbi.
He had announced Himself to be the
self-existent One, He who had been promised to Israel,
"whose goings forth have been from of old, from the days of eternity." Micah 5:2, margin.

Jehovah, the eternal, self-existent, uncreated One,
Himself the Source and Sustainer of all,
is alone entitled to supreme reverence and worship

This is the reward of all who follow Christ.
Jehovah Emmanuel --he in whom are hid all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge
--to be brought into sympathy with him, to possess him, as the heart opens more and more
to receive his attributes; to know his love and power,
to possess the unsearchable riches of Christ to comprehend more and more
"what is the length, and breadth, and depth, and height; and to know the love of Christ,
which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God."-
-this is the heritage of the servants of the Lord, and "their righteousness is of me, saith the Lord."

Holy angels have been displeased and disgusted with the irreverent manner
in which many have used the name of God, the great Jehovah.
Angels mention that sacred name with the greatest awe, ever veiling their faces
when they speak the name of God; and the name of Christ is so sacred
to them that they speak it with the greatest reverence.

"Before Abraham was, I am." (John 8:58)
Christ is the pre-existent, self-existent Son of God.
The message He gave to Moses to give to the children of Israel was,
"Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I Am hath sent me unto you."
The prophet Micah writes of Him, "But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, tho thou be little
among the thousands of Judah, yet out of Thee shall
He come forth unto Me that is to be ruler in Israel;
whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting.

" BT.1906-03-01 (Also in Ev. 614-615)
The Father can not be described by the things of earth.
The Father is all the fullness of the Godhead bodily,
and is invisible to mortal sight.
The Son is all the fullness of the Godhead manifested.

The word of God declares Him to be "the express image of His person."
"God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son,
that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but
have everlasting life." Here is shown the personality of the Father.
The Comforter that Christ promised to send after He ascended to heaven,
is the Spirit in all the fullness of the Godhead,
making manifest the power of divine grace to all who receive and believe in Christ as a personal Saviour.
There are three living persons of the heavenly trio.
In the name of these three powers,--the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost,

those who receive Christ by living faith are baptized,
and these powers will cooperate with the obedient
subjects of heaven in their efforts to live the new life in Christ.

"He that believeth in the Son, has the Father also." (1 John 2:23)
He who has continual faith in the Father and the Son has the Spirit also.
The Holy Spirit is his comforter, and he never departs from the truth.

"The fallen race could be restored only through the merit of Him who was equal with God. "

"It was to save the transgressor from ruin that
He who was co-equal with God, offered up his life on Calvary.

The anit-trinitarian writes:
The Trinitarian view causes its adherents to worship a WE, a THEM, an US, a THEY. Those are all plural words denoting a plurality of deities. That would fall under the category of the "gods many" and "lords many" of paganistic polytheism.

Here I strongly disagree. It is our understanding of the Trinity that says GOD IS ONE GOD, (three personages) but one in unity, substance, character, purpose, --the Father in the Son, the Son in the Father, the Spirit in both, yet they are three personages. The Father is revealed as the head, the Son takes on the form of the created beings, to manifest God onto them, the Spirit works upon the hearts and souls.

But those who oppose our belief say, God the Father is the ONLY ONE GOD, then God gave birth to a son, and because of bloodlines, this Son is also to be worshipped, but he is not the true God.

Now please-- which of these is pagan? Paganism is where gods give birth to generate other gods. I’ve already given examples of the Egyptian gods-- then there’s the Canaanite gods-- Baal is supposedly the son of Dagon--- then there are the female deities-- Astroth etc. -- all those pagan religions had some “supreme god” in their hierarchy, and the rest were wives, husbands, children -- there were many derived, “birthed” gods, who were acknowledged as gods because of their “blood line”.

Do you believe that acknowledging Christ as GOD is falling under the category of the “gods many” and “lords many”? In another post you called it “doctrines of demons”.

Now what is the doctrine of the Demons--

It was Lucifer’s big thing in heaven-- just like these arguments, Lucifer viewed Christ as a “lesser” Being from God the Father. Why?
Because Christ veils His glory and mingled freely with the angels. He didn’t appear that much different from the angels.
“Christ was above all. He was the commander of all Heaven. He imparted to the angelic family the high commands of His Father. (3SG 36)
He was God manifested, the ONE who mingled with them, even in heaven where the angels could see the throne of God.

“To dispute the supremacy of the Son of God, thus impeaching the wisdom and love of the Creator, had become the purpose of this prince of angels.” (PP 36)

So was Lucifer right when he said God was wrong in asking the angels to look to Christ as their LORD, as well as to God the Father?

At length all the angels are summoned to appear before the Father,
to have each case decided. God informs Satan that …to his Son will he reveal his secret purposes,
and that all the family of Heaven, Satan not excepted, were required
to yield implicit obedience. Satan boldly speaks out his rebellion,
……He declares he cannot submit to be under Christ's command, that God's commands alone will he obey.
Good angels weep to hear the words of Satan, and to see how he despises to follow
the direction of Christ, their exalted and loving commander.

Now I know you won’t say that Lucifer was right-- however, IF GOD THE FATHER AND CHRIST are not ONE GOD, couldn’t Lucifer’s statement be justified as simply refusing to have “gods many and lords” many? Yet it was BECAUSE CHRIST WAS EQUALLY GOD, HIS commands were equally the FATHER’S commands, they were NOT working independent of each other-- that we would say THEY ARE ONE GOD AND LORD.

“the King of the universe summoned the heavenly hosts before Him,
that in their presence He might set forth the true position of His Son
…The Son of God shared the Father’s throne,
and the glory of the eternal, self-existent ONE encircled BOTH

…..there had been no change in the position or authority of Christ….
this had been the same from the beginning…He had ever stood at the right hand of the Father”
His supremacy, so full of blessing to all had not heretofore been questioned.” (PP 36,38)

The exaltation of the Son of God AS EQUAL WITH THE FATHER
was represented as an injustice by Lucifer.


With solemn dignity Jesus answered, "Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I Am."
Silence fell upon the vast assembly.
The name of Godgiven to Moses to express the idea of the eternal presence,
had been claimed as His own by this Galilean Rabbi.
He had announced Himself to be the self-existent One,

GC 501 Satan contested every claim put forth
by the Son of God and employed men as his agents.

The anti-Trinitarian wrote:
Did not Jesus say, in the following prayer to His Father?:
John 17:3 - "And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent."
The trinitarian viewpoint of God is that God is Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. But notice that Jesus, who is talking to the Father specifically states that its the Father (thee) that is the ONLY TRUE GOD. This is totally irreconcilable with the trinity teaching. The trinitarian concept asserts that the word used for God is a plural word and such is the case that was made in one of sister Ulrike's previous presentations when she touched upon Genesis 1:26. Now, to be consistent, if sister Ulrike's point of view is correct with regards to Genesis 1:26, then Jesus would have said this:
"And this is life eternal, that they might know US, the only true God and Jesus Christ who WE have sent."

Yes, it is by knowing Christ that we know God, Christ is the manifestation of Godhead--
He was sent to reveal God. He is God manifested. By KNOWING CHRIST, we know God. Yes, Christ is praying to God the Father because He is the SON of MAN come to earth to reveal God! He takes no glory to Himself. Just as God the Father says, this is MY SON (meaning He is no ordinary man-- He came forth from the Father’s “bosom” into the world-- He is Divine, though clothed in humanity-- LISTEN TO HIM! (Matt. 17:5)

THERE IS BUT ONE DIETY-- ONE GOD, in three personages.

John 8.19
Then said they unto him, Where is thy Father? Jesus answered, Ye neither know me, nor my Father: if ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also.

John 14.7
If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him, he that hath seen me hath seen the Father

The anti-trinitarian writes Well, I don't know about you - but according to the above trinitarian rendition I now see FOUR gods there. We have 1.) God the Father, 2.) God the Son, 3.) God the Spirit, and 4.) Jesus Christ. But deity number 4 is actually deity number 2. So does that make deity number 2 a "bianity" and a subset of the trinity??? Then if trinity means 3 and bianity means 2, then we have a grand total of 5 (FIVE) Gods or deities or divinities, or whatever one would like to refer to them! What is it now then - a pentity??? I'm really not trying to be funny nor am I trying to poke fun at any specific belief system. I'm just trying to show the absurdity and the inconsistency and the outlandish lengths of ridiculous-ness

Yes, I’ll agree what is written in the paragraph above is ridiculous-- it is not at all what I believe and is simply a strange twisting of what I was saying. It is saying exactly the opposite of what we believe. How can a belief in ONE GOD, manifested in three personages, mean the above?

Either it’s a direct mockery of the Deity of Christ, which EGW says:

GC. 524
"If men reject the testimony of the inspired Scriptures concerning the
Deity of Christ, it is vain to argue the point with them. . .None who
hold this error can have a true conception of the character or the
mission of Christ, or of the great plan of God for man's redemption."

The plan of salvation is not appreciated as it should be. It is not discerned or comprehended.
It is made altogether a cheap affair; whereas to unite the human with the divine,
required an exertion of Omnipotence. It was necessary that a
great condescension should be made on the part of God in behalf of fallen man,
who had transgressed the unchangeable law of Jehovah.
Christ, by clothing his divinity with humanity, elevates humanity in the scale of moral value
to an infinite worth. But what a condescension on the part of God,
and on the part of his only begotten Son, who was equal with the Father!

All this had to be done because God's law had been transgressed.

Or it is saying God contradicted Himself when He commanded us to worship ONLY THE ONE TRUE GOD, yet told us to Worship “Jehovah EmmanuEL” .

No, we believe there is ONE GOD; the Father, the Son, the Holy Spirit.

1 Cor. 8:4 says There is but ONE GOD, (One Deity or divinity)

So if there is BUT ONE DIVINITY-- it follows that both Christ and God the Father are of that ONE DIVINITY.

The anti-Trinitarian writes:
One BEING that is the ETERNAL God, the source of all life and being. The Father is God for He has NEVER had any dependency or source of His existence for He is the source of all. The trinitarian view states that all three beings of the trinity are equally the source of all life and being. If words have any meaning at all, how can this possibly be taken as a bible fact when the bible never teaches it??? Where does the bible state that there are three almighty deities?

The understanding of the Trinity does NOT teach that there are three separate ALMIGHTY DEITIES.

The trinity believes there IS ONE ALMIGHTY DEITY Comprised of three persons who are in perfect unity- ONENESS. Eternal from everlasting to everlasting. They do not work independent of each other. Nor are they derived. It is ONE DEITY, though the three persons have assumed different roles within that Deity and yes, God the Father has the “headship” role, but they are three in ONE with no superiority or inferiority but ONE. Analogies always fall short-- so I won’t use them.

1. The Father is all the fullness of the Godhead bodily, and is invisible to mortal sight.
2. The Son is all the fullness of the Godhead manifested. …
3. The Spirit in all the fullness of the Godhead, making manifest the power of divine grace

And yes, Christ is also the source of life-- He has LIFE within HIMSELF, He is the Creator, without Him NOTHING WAS CREATED THAT WAS CREATED. (Col. 1:16) whilst created beings only have the life bestowed upon them by God.

John 11.25
Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:

Col. 3.4
When Christ, who is our life, shall appear,

1 Timothy 1.1
Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, according to the promise of life which is in Christ Jesus,

1 John 5.20
And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.

"I am the resurrection, and the life." He who had said, "I lay down my life, that I might take it again," came forth from the grave to life that was in himself. Humanity died: divinity did not die. In his divinity, Christ possessed the power to break the bonds of death. He declares that he has life in himself to quicken whom he will.

Still seeking to give a true direction to her faith, Jesus declared, "I am the resurrection, and the life." In Christ is life, original, unborrowed, underived. "He that hath the Son hath life." 1 John 5:12. The divinity of Christ is the believer's assurance of eternal life.

From Jesus is our life derived. In him is life that is original,--unborrowed, underived life. In him is the fountain of life. In us there is a streamlet from the fountain of life.

Not one of the angels could have become surety for the human race: their life is God's; they could not surrender it. The angels all wear the yoke of obedience. They are the appointed messengers of Him who is the commander of all heaven. But Christ is equal with God, infinite and omnipotent. He could pay the ransom for man's freedom. He is the eternal, self-existing Son, on whom no yoke had come; and when God asked, "Whom shall I send?" he could reply, "Here am I; send me."

Maranatha 302
"In him [Christ] was life; and the life was the light of men." It is not physical life that is here specified, but immortality, the life which is exclusively the property of God. The Word, who was with God, and who was God, had this life. Physical life is something which each individual receives. It is not eternal or immortal; for God, the Life-giver, takes it again. Man has no control over his life. But the life of Christ was unborrowed. No one can take this life from Him. "I lay it down of myself," He said. In Him was life, original, unborrowed, underived.

The anti-Trinitarian clarifies his position saying:
To deny the trinity view is NOT to deny the deity of the Son.

However, to say it is not denying the deity of Christ, is either bitheism, or accepting the premise of the Trinity-- For the Bible says there is only ONE DEITY and that deity alone are we to worship. God won’t say WORSHIP ONLY THE ONE DEITY, and at the same time worship a lesser Deity.

The movement against the Trinity back in the late 1700 was based on “rationalism” -- if you don’t understand it, throw it out. This has lead to making God TOO MUCH LIKE HUMANS-- This concept that a son is someone born to you--that’s the way it is for humans-- easy to understand, BUT THAT IS NOT THE PICTURE WE SEE IN THE BIBLE--

When Christ was with us-- IT WAS GOD WITH US in the person of Christ.

"You shall call His name EmmanuEL, meaning GOD WITH US."
"Wherever was the presence of His Son, it was as His own presence." SR 13

Christ said:

John 14:7-10
If you had known me, you should have known my Father also: and from henceforth you know him, and have seen him. Philip saith unto him, Lord, show us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet have you not known me, Philip? he that has seen me has seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father? Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me?
John 10.30
I and my Father are one.

And when Christ says He will send the Holy Spirit He says I and My Father will come to You.

When Christ returned to heaven and sent His Holy Spirit-- it is GOD WITH US in the personage of the Spirit. When one member of the Godhead is present, it is GOD WITH US in the personage of that member. That's what ONE GOD in three personages means.

All through the Old Testament we see God and Christ working-- we see two persons-- yet ONE JEHOVAH-- (and both have the NAME) Often one doesn’t know which personage is representing the Godhead in the OT.
In the new Testament it becomes even more prominent-- There are definitely TWO persons (no I’m not denying the Holy Spirit--just not focusing on that at present)
Christ has received the delegation to redeem man and in this work comes the total subordination of the Son to the Father, The Father surrenders everything into the hands of the Son who in turn, in His incarnate state has to learn obedience and subordination to His Father (Heb. 5:8) In the end the Son hands everything back to the Father and all is all in Oneness---

People now try to explain this in ultra humanistic simplicity, but the inner ONENESS of the Godhead wherein the three dwell is not after HUMAN SIMPLICITY at all:

The problem with a lot of this is that there are many versions to this concept of the Trinity and some of them are wrong-- but the basic foundation that GOD IS ONE in three personages is Biblical and taught by EGW.

Man can not penetrate the inner structure of God. “The highest intellect may tax itself until it is wearied out in conjectures regarding the nature of God, but the effort will be fruitless. This problem has not been given us to solve. No human mind can comprehend God. None are to indulge in speculation regarding His nature. The Omniscient One is above discussion (MH 429)

It is late and I must stop.
Thank-you for your time.

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