That is what the papacy wants---
She wants back what she had during those 1260 years. The issue isn't whether people liked it or not-- many didn't. The issue isn't whether the papacy was at a strong or weak point--
The issue is papal primacy and the authority to enforce that primacy by civil law and with the use of civil power.
The papacy is not satisfied to be "one of the body" of Christian churches. NO, NO, NEVER!
She must be the leader, and controller---
THROUGH LEGISLATION
AND SHE HAS MADE THIS VERY PLAIN
In an official four page "note" after the release of the Vatican Declaration Dominus Deus which reaffirmed the Papal position of Primacy by Pope John Paul II, the Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, who is the "Prefect" of the Vatican's Congregation for the Doctrine of Faith (Note: that means he is head of the re-established and renamed Office of the Inquisition)
stated:
"when the expression 'sister churches' is used in the proper sense, the one, holy, Catholic and apostolic Universal Church is not (meant to be) sister but MOTHER of all particular churches. This is not merely a question of terminology, but above all of respecting a basic truth of the Catholic faith: that of the unicity of the Church of Jesus Christ."
Rev. 17 jumps to mind--
Mystery Babylon, the mother.....
This is the primacy that lead to the 1260 years of papal persecution, when that primacy was united with the power of the state to force people into compliance.
Otto Gierke, speaking of Pope Gregory VII (Pope from 1020-1085) writes in "Political Theories of the Middle Ages", p.11-12
"If mankind be only one, and if there can be but one State that comprises all mankind, that State can be no other than the Church that God Himself has founded, and all temporal lordship can be valid only in so far as it is part and parcel of the Church. Therefore the Church, being the one true State, has received by a mandate from God the plenitude of all spiritual and temporal powers, they being integral parts of One Might. The Head of this all embracing State is Christ.
BUT, as the Unity of Mankind is to be realized already in this world, His celestial kingship must have a terrestrial presentment. As Christ's Vice-Regent, the earthly Head of the Church is the one and only Head of all Mankind. The Pope is the wielder of what is in principle an Empire (principatus) over the Community of Mortals. He is their Priest and their King; their spiritual and temporal Monarch; their Lawgiver and judge in all causes supreme.
Gregory (Pope from 1020-1085) was probably the first pope to claim UNIVERSAL jurisdiction, he issued his Dictatus Papae, containing twenty-seven propositions about the powers of the pope, which declared he was over kings and emperors. But we see popes crowning and anointing kings and emperors well before that time. Stephen IV anointed and crowned Louis as successor to Charlemagne in 816. Leo III was the pope who crowned Charlemagne.
As early as 492 Pope Gelasius claimed the title "Vicar of Christ".
According to Richard McBrien in "Lives of the Popes" p. 80-81 Gelasius I, (pope from 492-496) Wrote a series of letters which read more like legal briefs in defence of papal primacy by appealing to the theory of "two powers" or "two swords" (the spiritual and the temporal) each power has its own sphere BUT the spiritual power is superior to the temporal.
Even earlier, Pope Leo the Great (r. 440-461) was promoting the right to primacy and asserting that Peter, above all the disciples was given this right.
In a letter to the Bishop of Vienna (according "The Faith of the Early Fathers" (FEF), 3 volumes, Collegeville, MN: Liturgical Press, 1970, vol. 3, p. 269; he wrote:
"Although bishops have a common dignity, they are not all of the same rank. Even among the most blessed Apostles, though they were alike in honor, there was a certain distinction of power. All were equal in being chosen, but it was given to one to be pre-eminent over the others . . . the care of the universal Church would converge in the one See of Peter, and nothing should ever be at odds with this head."
So early on we see the papal authority asserting it's sovereignty over spiritual power, of which it claimed to be the head. The civil leaders were merely the police department of the Church to be used to further it's aims. With the fall of the western Roman Empire, the church took over the vacated prerogatives of that position. The establishment of Justinian's law in Rome in 538 legally declared the Pope as the "head of all churches".
A Challenger speaks:
But the church can show a direct line of authority to Peter, the first bishop of Rome and the one to whom Christ gave the keys. Pope Leo (440-461) plainly said, "From the whole world only one, Peter, is chosen to preside over the calling of all nations, and over all the other Apostles, and over the Fathers of the Church . . . Peter . . . rules them all, of whom, too, it is Christ who is their chief ruler. Divine condescension, dearly beloved, has granted to this man in a wonderful and marvellous manner the aggregate of its power; and if there was something that it wanted to be his in common with other leaders, it never gave whatever it did not deny to others except through him."
His views were merely the culmination and more advanced development of what had been the essential beliefs of the universal (that is, Catholic) Church from the beginning.
According to the "authoritative" Roman Catholic tradition this may seem true. But scripture really does NOT Support this concept at all.
Read the book of Acts. It makes no reference to Peter being in Rome. It speaks of Paul being in Rome, but nothing about Peter. Paul wrote a letter to the Church in Roman (A.D. 57 or 58) but makes no reference to Peter. Paul was in prison in Rome and wrote four letters during that time, but again he makes no mention of Peter being there.
We are not told HOW Christianity began in Rome, or who the founder of the Roman Christian church was. We do know that "visitors from Rome" were in Jerusalem when the disciples preached on the day of Pentecost and 5000 were converted in one day. (Acts 2:10) Several Christian writers who wrote from Rome in (100-150 A.D.) didn't mention Peter either. This is striking because they do speak of "Simon the Magician" who, legend has it, made a lot of trouble for "pope" Peter in Rome.
The early Christian writers make no definite statement whatsoever of Peter being the Bishop of Rome. One, Ignatius of Antioch, mentioned in a letter to Rome, that "I do not command you like Peter and Paul did". But on examining Ignatius's letters, we realize that he used that kind of language frequently, as to the Ephesians, he says: "I do not give you orders as being someone important", or to the Trallians "I did not consider myself qualified to give you orders as an apostle." The whole legend of Peter being the first "pope" in Rome, is build on supposition and a few vague phrases. Even the book "Lives of the Popes" by Richard McBrien, admits that,
"Although Catholic tradition, regards St. Peter as the first Bishop of Rome and therefore as the first pope, there is no evidence that peter was involved in the initial establishment of the Christian community in Rome..or that he served as Rome's first bishop. Not until the pontificate of St. Pius I in the middle of the second century (142-155) did the Roman church have one bishop as pastoral leader..." (p. 25)
History shows that the power of the bishop of Rome grew because it was situated in the "power" capital of the "world", not because it came from Peter, or any apostolic authority.
Even more destructive to the "legend" is the realization that Peter didn't even exercise any type of "headship" among the apostles. He was one of the apostles and a fearless preacher and missionary for Christ. But scriptures does not reveal him to be the head of the apostles in the years after Christ's ascension. We find James presiding in the counsel at Jerusalem and Peter having to answer to the counsel for "visiting a Gentile". Paul sure didn't think Peter was infallible-- he told him to his face when he thought he was wrong. Also Paul, makes it clear he received his gospel from Christ and NOT from Peter or any other apostle. (Gal. 1:11-17) It was only after Paul was "instructed by the Lord", that he spent some time with Peter and James.
The Rock upon which the church is built is Christ.
"The Lord is upright; HE IS MY ROCK." Ps. 92:15
"My soul waiteth upon God: from Him cometh my salvation, HE ONLY IS MY ROCK and my salvation." Ps. 62:1,2
The KEYS belong to Christ.
"I am HE that lives and was dead; and behold, I am alive for evermore, AMEN and have THE KEYS of hell and death." Rev.1:18 There is another key mentioned in the Bible that we need to be aware of:
"I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit, and there arose smoke out of the pit...darkness...(Rev. 9:1,2)A Challenger speaks:
No respectable historian believes that Rome had 'papal primacy' from 538-1798. There was only a VERY short period in that time where she even controlled most of western Europe.
Nothing significant happened in 538 or 1798. Actually, for the first 700 years, the Bishop of Rome had the greatest honor among five patriarchates, including Constantinople, Antioch, Alexandria, and Jerusalem. Islam wiped out the Christian church in three of those places, leaving Constantinople and Rome. The Roman Empire shifted to Constantinople, and that was the center of Christian civilization -- Rome, after its fall, became a backwater, and in the two hundred years before the final split of the Church between east and west, the Bishops of Rome were basically pawns of whatever tribal bully had sway in the West. The west was a motley assortment of tribes and fiefdoms, and not a political unity, let alone one in which the Bishop of Rome had any kind of influence.
My answer:
You say no respectable historian believes that Rome had 'papal primacy' from 538-1798?
It would appear then, for one to be respectable one must be "ecumenically correct" not "historically correct" when it comes to the Papacy?
I just quoted from SEVERAL historical books that the Papacy was declared as THE HEAD OF ALL CHURCHES--
--that is called PRIMACY.
"By an edict which he (Justinian) issued to unite all men in one faith, whether Jews, Gentiles, or Christians--"
And that is exactly what pope John Paul II wants now--
No, he doesn't want to be president, or king, he just wants to control the presidents and kings and use their armies to further his ends, while he sits back and says "I didn't do it".
The Roman strategy is to "play weak" while working with powerful influence behind the scenes.
The Papacy WANTS IT'S PRIMACY BACK-- read the Papal "Dominus Jesus (On the Unicity and Salvific Universality of Jesus Christ and the Church) Sept. 5,2000
Quote:
#16 "The fullness of Christ's salvific mystery belongs to the Church, inseparably united to her Lord. Indeed Jesus Christ continues his presence and his work of salvation in the Church and by means of the church....
..an historical continuity- rooted in apostolic succession between the Church founded by Christ and the Catholic Church: "This is the single church of Christ...which our Savior, after his resurrection, entrusted to Peter's pastoral care....
#17 Therefore there exists a single Church of Christ, which subsists in the Catholic Church, governed by the successor of Peter and by the Bishops in communion with him...
Ecclesial communities which have not preserved the valid Episcopate and genuine and integral substance of the Eucharistic mystery are not Churches in the proper sense...."
Only one indoctrinated in the "re-written history" would ever deny that the Catholic Church was the leading influence over kings and people during the middle ages.
No they didn't RULE upon the thrones of kings, they only controlled kings and kingdoms and used them and their armies to further their ends.
According to D. Mills (The Middle Ages p. 44)
Quote:
The churches of the east and the west had tended to develop differently. In the west the Bishop of Rome became supreme over all other bishops, but in the east the Patriarchs of the great cities, Constantinople, Alexandria, Antioch and Jerusalem, were of equal authority in the councils of the Church...
The Patriarch was supported by the eastern emperor and as time went on, rivalry and controversies were constantly developing between the patriarch and the Pope. The Patriarch tended more and more to be under the domination of the Emperor, whereas the Pope was independent, and as the west of Europe became Christian his power increased....
The western Church became the great civilizing power of medieval Europe.
A forged letter called "Donation of Constantine" was written sometime around 740 A.D. In this forgery it was claimed that the pope was given universal primacy even earlier then 538-- which only illustrates the great drive the papacy had to enforce it's primacy. The forgery has been recognized as such, but, though Catholic scholars recognize its spuriousness, they maintain that the principles expressed are correct!
And what are the principles expressed by this document that came out around 740 A.D.?
To the most holy and blessed father of fathers Sylvester, bishop of the city of Rome and pope, and to all his successors the pontiffs who are about to sit upon the chair of St. Peter until the end of time....should obtain from us and our empire the power of a supremacy greater than the earthly clemency of our imperial serenity....we decree that his holy Roman church shall be honoured with veneration; and that, more than our empire and earthly throne, the most sacred seat of St. Peter shall be gloriously exalted; we giving to it the imperial power, and dignity of glory and vigour and hour...he shall have the supremacy as well over the four chief seats...as also over all the churches of God in the whole world....."(Papal Supremacy, V.Olson)
Now, you are right-- the bishop of Rome had no primacy whatsoever in the very early years of Christianity. There was no such thing as a "pope" in the early years. In the early years Jerusalem was looked to as the initial center. But later it seems to be mainly the leading BISHOPS from the various churches that formed a leadership core. Alexandra, Ephesus, Antioch, Rome, --
Mind you-- that "equal authority" among bishops was true YEARS before 538-- The Roman Bishop had "elevated" himself on numerous occasions previous to 538. And being that he was at the center of the "civil" power center, it seemed natural to make that the center of "spiritual" power as well. When the Council of Chalcedon in A.D. 451 was called in Rome. The reason for choosing that location was the fact that it was the imperial city, not that it was the SEAT of Peter. The whole Catholic argument of Popes dating to Peter is not founded in history.
Victor, who was bishop of Rome in A.D. 190 was probably the first bishop of Rome to move for primacy. He started "excommunicating" other bishops when he declared easter was to be celebrated and the "unyielding" bishops wanted to keep Passover.
When Constantine "converted", the "primacy" factor of the Roman Bishop increased considerably and he was made head of the western churches, but it was only in 538 that Roman codified LAW gave official recognition and authority to elevate him to the position as HEAD OF ALL CHURCHES, and then "withdrew" giving the papacy political as well as religious power.)
You are also right about Europe NOT being united.
BUT every "tribal bully" the church managed to convert, the church then sent out to forcefully "convert" other tribes and "stamp out" the "heretical and barbaric" religions in all the surrounding "fiefdoms".
Clovis, king of Franks (481-511) was one of the first great "bullies" of the church. He was baptized in 496, with three thousand of his warriors and received into the Church. It marked the real beginning of the wholesale conversion tactics. For now the pope had a military army of three thousand warriors under Clovis to send out and convert more "barbarians".
It was Clovis that struck out against the Arian "heretics" and won in 508. And was thereafter pronounced the "first Catholic majesty" and his successor "the eldest Son of the Church".
This prepared the way for the rise of the Roman papal power, which thirty years later was elevated as the "HEAD OF ALL CHURCHES"-
This is a prime example to the way Rome wielded her strength-- through secular powers --
as well as claiming to hold in her hands the ONLY way of salvation.
Challenger comments: And it's funny that you first say that the pope got his supposed authority from Justinian in 534. Which is it? 534 or 538?This was dealt with on page one. A brief review:
Historians tell us that Justinian codified the Roman law. He employed a lawyer named Tribonian, who, with a committee of 16 lawyers gathered together all the numerous laws which had governed Roman over the centuries previous. This law was codified. Then in an imperial rescript in 534 A.D. the Roman bishop was recognized as the head of all the churches, and given full authority as such.
However the Gothic king Theodahad was reigning in Italy.
That meant German law was the rule in Rome.
Therefore the exaltation of the papacy in Rome was in decree only and could not be put into effect.
It was general Belisarius, who by command of Justinian, took over the city of Rome from the Goths in 538 (though the Goths were not driven out of all of Italy till years later in 555.) but in 538 they were driven out of Rome, Roman Imperial law was established in that city once again. Vigilius became pope, replacing the pro-Gothic pope Silverius, who was exciled.
The IMPERIAL administration was reintroduced and Justinian's newly codified law became the law of Rome---now Justinian’s decree elevating the Pope as head of all churches, formulated a few years earlier, could take effect, in Rome, in 538.
But the Pope was weak, was he not?Challenger writes:
"A History of the Christian Church" (first published in 1918, so hardly "modernist" or "revisionist") doesn't mention either 534 or 538. It doesn't have anything to say, in fact, about any supposed favors Justinian granted to the Bishop of Rome. As a matter of fact, Pope Vigilius (537-555) is described as "weak and indecisive." And Justinian brought him to Constantinople and got him to kow-tow to his desires. And the Bishops of Africa, in response, excommunicated Vigilius, which brought him to his senses.
1918 was already well passed the time of Bellarmine who set in motion his part in the counter reformation aimed at extinguishing the 1260 day/year prophecies. It is pretty obvious that those things are "disappearing" from history books, so why should that prove anything.
While Justinian elevated the papacy as HEAD OVER ALL CHURCHES< he did NOT place the papacy above himself.
"Justinian always felt himself to be the servant of God and the executor of his will--and the empire to be the instrument of God's plan in the world. The empire had placed itself irrevocably under the symbol of the cross, so its purpose was to guard and spread Christianity ....
"Justinian never distinguished Roman state tradition from Christianity. ...He defined the mission of the pious emperor as 'the maintenance of the Christian faith in its purity and the protection of the Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church from any disturbance."....
"The state itself was conceived to be the only community established by God, and it embraced the whole life of man."
(Church History in Plain Language, Bruce Shelley, p. 146-147)
In this role Justinian, according to Croly, in the “Apocalypse of St. John,” pages, 167,168, "wrote to the pope in 533, “We have made no delay in subjecting and uniting to Your Holiness all the priests of the whole East…We cannot suffer that anything which relates to the state of the church, however manifest and unquestionable, should be moved, without the knowledge of your Holiness, who are THE HEAD OF ALL THE HOLY CHURCHES”
Yes, there was much strife and rivalry.
The emperor stayed in the east. There was also the Patriarch in the east, who tended more and more to be under the domination of the Emperor, whereas the Pope was independent, and as the west of Europe became Christian his power steadily increased....
The western Church was the central civilizing power of medieval Europe, and made life pretty miserable for any that did not agree with her.
Justinian's decree in elevating the pope under imperial law, and then the withdrawal of the empirical head itself into the east, set the pope in the LEGAL POSITION as head of church and state affairs in the whole western civilized world.
The fact that there was strife, and rebellions and power struggles amongst popes and political leaders, and even amongst popes themselves, does not change the basic premise or position held by the papacy during the 1260 years.
We can readily see from history that this was no time of spiritual holiness. The church was indeed rather corrupt with much strife and intrigue, rather than preaching the gospel of Jesus Christ.
Justinian had however, united church with the state, and Justinian was a persecutor of anyone that didn't believe in his brand of religion. He had relentlessly executed his imperial edict with great rigor, confiscating "heretic's" property, driving many from their homes. Many of these refugees had fled to the west hoping to find security under the tolerant rule of the Ostrogothic king Theodoric.
Then Belisarius, Justinian's general, marched on Rome and took the city from the Ostrogoths, in 538. Then the Church of Rome not only accepted the legal, exalted title of "THE HEAD OF ALL CHURCHES" which Justinian had decreed, she also accepted the persecuting policy of Justinian and did all in her power to move against the refugees in Italy who had fled out of the East.
This was only the beginning of the long period when to believe differently meant persecution. Also claiming the keys to heaven and hell, Rome worked on the emotions of the people to wield them into compliance.
If the Pope had So Much Power Why Didn't He Stop the Moslems?The challenger adds: And if the pope had this supreme universal power, commanding all the armies of Europe, how come a later pope was able to let Islam wipe out half the Christian church? Pretty weak power, that.
First of all, no one said he had supreme civic universal power. He had "primacy". He was the "protector and persecutor" over a church/state Europe. The "ten toes" (Daniel 2)of Europe are never united, though they at times make efforts to unite, they do not cleave to each other, but they are held together by the papal "clay" who uses and manipulates them, with his "spiritual authority" to achieve his ends.
The Islamic movement arose partly because of the corruptions in the Christian church. They were a fulfilment of prophecy, as the trumpets five and six of Revelation sounded their warnings against an apostate church.
In the same way God used the Islamic nations to bring judgment on the so called Christian church during the 1260 years, so God may again use the Islamic Nations to bring judgment upon apostate Christianity. Will people listen and TRULY return to their God?
The papal "universal primacy" over the whole world is just around the corner. When the wound is completely healed (and it almost is so now) conditions will be shaped in such a way that the whole world will wonder after the beast, they will worship him. (See Rev. 13) Again, this will not mean that all the nations will be governed by the pope as to their political details, they will still be recognized as nations and the unity will be fragile as they will still be at odds with one another, BUT, for a short time, they will place themselves under the spiritual authority of the papal leadership and execute his commands pretaining to enforced worship imposed moral statutes. (See Rev. 17)
Does that mean there will be no war and strife and bullies beating up others? NO-- in fact it will be the worst time of trouble this world has ever seen.
The Papal 1260 years are known as the "DARK AGES".
